Arrogance, ignorance, evasiveness, and the problems that lie within.

Discussion in 'Issues & Reports' started by GNAWERS, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. GNAWERS

    GNAWERS New Member

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    I would like to initiate this post with a disclaimer:

    I know the majority of the server's population dislikes me as an individual and personality, but this should not degrade the points I am about to make. My offences on the server have no impact on how or why I form these following opinions the way I do. Yes, my opinions are valid and based on sound information. No, my low playtime doesn't diminish any credibility of my viewpoints. I'm using this disclaimer as a forward response to any petty arguments that may (and probably still) be brought up against me.

    Now to the subject.

    To begin, I am of the opinion that the current staffing of (red specifically) AppleCraft are doing their jobs in an inadequate fashion. I believe it is well known how I feel about most of the decisions the staff make, and furthermore how I feel about the members of staff themselves. I would like to shed some light on this thought process and clarify why I feel the way I do before any misconceptions are made. Yes, I am considered, and perhaps rightfully so, an obnoxious player that doesn't contribute much to the server's community, and occasionally I do violate minor chat rules and I am punished accordingly for these infractions, and this is completely fair - or would be, if not for one thing. Most, if not all, members of AppleCraft realize that violating a rule will result in punishment, and it should. The controversial opinion I hold on this subject has been brought up multiple time in-game and in the discord chatroom. I am comfortable posting this thread having assurance there are others who feel the same way, and see injustice in the same light I do. I will provide my opinion in a clear, concise sentence to fully get the point across: I believe, as do others, from the most unbiased view as possible, that certain players are treated better/worse depending on their relations with the staff team. Aside from being natural human behavior to favor friends over foe, the proof can be seen simply by playing on the server for any considerable length of time. The issue is actually fairly complicated to discuss and describe to its full extent, as its a very situational and subjective thing, but to deny its existence entirely is nothing short of arrogant and naive.

    The next subject I would like to discuss with the community is actually an undeniable one: the lack of communication between staff and players on quite literally everything. From getting muted for mystery reasons to major server-wide changes, it feels to me and others that the community has little to no say as to what happens to it. I would like to instill a friendly reminder that without the community, Applecraft would not exist the way it does today, and this is why listening to the people and communicating with them is extremely, extremely important. This is not a threat, this is not a snide remark, it is simply a fact I believe should be acknowledged by the staff team as it is a very detrimental thing that holds all communities together. This might come as a surprise, but I actually do care about Applecraft and its community, and arguably that's why I take these things so far. I want to see Applecraft stay a great server, and become an even better one in the future. This is why the issues I have brought for the community to discuss bother me, and very much so at that. This place is a place for people to come and enjoy Minecraft after a long day at work or after having a terrible day. I am within the understanding that what I am about to say could be perceived as hypocritical and perhaps arrogant, but that is okay: It is easier to write me off as a obnoxious belligerent spamming chat with useless ideas rather than acknowledge me and others as players who hold valuable opinions about the server and its community. To paraphrase: I do not consider myself an aggressor in this situation, and I know that may displease some people likely to read this post, but I genuinely do not. Do I take things to far sometimes? Certainly. Consider the time it has taken me to stop arguing in chat and come to write a forum post. It is definitely not productive to argue in chat with people who do not seem to care about the topics being discussed. Names, of course, will not be named as that is not in the essence of this discussion. But I would beg to argue I am not an aggressor, but more so a player who isn't, to put it bluntly, scared of voicing their opinion on potentially controversial subjects. Perhaps the average player simply doesn't care, or they're afraid of losing their whimsical status on a Minecraft server, but I have never been esteemed enough for my reputation to be tarnished by raising my concerns to a staff team who has made it publicly known they don't want much, if any, concerns to be raised at all. As mentioned previously, I am trying my best to word this without sounding arrogant, but I have found it difficult to do so. I can understand from an outsiders perspective how someone who is already not in good standing with me would see this and scoff, and that is well enough, as it is human nature and not preventable. I believe this paragraph may have gone off topic slightly, so I will summarize: Communication is not only important, but should be ENCOURAGED by the staff team, not shied away from, or even, in rare cases, silenced.

    The last point I would like to initiate will be brief, and probably not worth much discussion like the last two, but it is indeed a small extension of the last. No player, no matter how petty it may seem, should have their issues and concerns ignored, EVER, by any member of the Applecraft staff. It has almost become a meme on the red server that the staff like to ignore problems when they are presented with them. In my opinion, this is not debatable, nor is it excusable in any way.

    For my closing thoughts, I would like to retain your attention for just a moment longer and reiterate my disclaimer that I opened this passage with. I am sorry if I have caused you discomfort or any disdain for myself in general, but I do ask you view and ponder on what I have said here today with the least biased view as possible. The purpose of this post is and was never intended to be degrading of anyone on the server, staff or player alike, which is why no names were ever brought up in my arguments. The absolute worst thing that could happen now is this post being ignored by the community and by the staff team, but I am in good faith it will not be. Thank you for staying with me this far and I thank you, reader, whoever you may be, for reading what I have wrote here today and contributing to this thread in hopes for a better future for Applecraft and its people.

    Sincerely,
    GNAWERS

    If anyone would like to discuss this further, my discord tag is as follows: yeahokmhmm#1431

    Have a good day and holidays.

    Edited: Grammatical mistakes
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  2. Muriel

    Muriel New Member

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    Thank you for posting this, I hope it solves some of the issues you have with this server. I happen to be new, but I agree with most of your points in the post. Cheers.
     
  3. GNAWERS

    GNAWERS New Member

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    Thank you Muriel. I hope more will see this and add their positions on the topic as well.
     
  4. derpywafflegamer

    derpywafflegamer Member

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    Well... I agree and disagree with you saying that the staff are biased and pick players that have based relations with staff.. I'll explain why.

    Yes they do like players that they have good relations and that is common sense. I'm here to back the staff team up for that. The staff team, sure they "treat certain players better/worse depending on their relations with the staff team." I'm sorry I will have to go against your disclaimer to explain why the staff have the right to do so. Try putting yourself in the staff's shoes. When they first see you, what do they see? Do they see a rule obeying nice to the community player, or a rule breaker, who's annoying the whole community? In the beginning, the staff's trust is neutral... but as people start doing good/bad, staff's relations and trust with that player go up/down. And of course they are meant to take sides because somebody that is trustworthy, vs somebody that is not, the staff will always pick the trustworthy person.

    Likewise, if somebody is breaking rules, by instinct, staff will immediately not be happy with them (not going to say dislike), because they want the better good for the community. And when you were talking about how staff disregard your good ideas and take other people's good ideas... they don't disregard your ideas, they do consider it, but less than other people's who have ideas because you've done something wrong and broken the relationship/trust with them... Now I'm not saying its impossible to regain their trust, it takes time. And when you have their trust, they will now consider you more with other players because you are trustworthy and your record is clear... And also, once you do have your trust.. don't break it again..

    That's just my two-cents :D
    Thank you so much for taking the time to read

    ~Wqfflez

    EDIT: I was speaking with durzek ingame, and he said that people were calling him a pedophile etc, breaking the chat filters and that the staff were doing "nothing" ... I agree the staff is not perfect, but they will try their best and if you let them know with concrete evidence, its defiantly a punishment
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  5. applebranch

    applebranch Owner Staff Member Owner

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    Hi @GNAWERS

    From what I understand you're raising three points here;
    1. We should treat all players fairly regardless of their relationship with staff,
    2. We should listen to the community regarding concerns, and
    3. We shouldn't ignore issues faced by players.
    I agree with all the above points.

    When a player has an issue on the server, or a concern/criticism, it's easy for it to get lost amongst chat or on Discord. If you ever find a player with an issue/concern please post on the forums as it's the best way of making sure the message is seen regardless of time zone.

    It's only by keeping a log of player grievances or moderator issues that we can identify trends and respond to problems. If these issues aren't reported using formal channels, they don't get heard and can't be responded to appropriately.

    I will update our /rules to encourage players to post any issues they have regarding the server or staff on the forums.
     
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  6. GNAWERS

    GNAWERS New Member

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    Thank you for your reply, but I believe I adequately addressed this response in the post. It is not "OK" for staff to view one's opinions differently because of previous infractions. If the opinion is valid, based on reason, and politely brought forth, it is not acceptable in any way to be ignored.
     
  7. GNAWERS

    GNAWERS New Member

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    Thank you for taking action, and updating the rules. Yes, the three points you listed are indeed the issues I am raising, and I am very glad you have understood them as I meant them to be understood. I was worried about potential miscommunication. Of course, it is one thing to discuss, but another to act. I hope to see the behavior of the server moderators change for the better when engaging with the average player.

    Again, thank you.
     
  8. derpywafflegamer

    derpywafflegamer Member

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    No, but I also said that an offence can alter the staffs opinion, but can also be restored.. to me that is completely fair..
     
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  9. GNAWERS

    GNAWERS New Member

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    I understand what you said, I simply disagree, and believe all players should be treated equally as long as they points are respectfully brought forth.
     
  10. Rob

    Rob Member

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    Gnawers,

    I think Apple did a great job responding to your stated points so I'm not going to touch those. I would, however like to address something else from your post.

    It appears to me that you think you are not liked. This pains me. I don't want anyone to feel that way. I can say without hesitation that I certainly like you. And, while I won't speak for anyone else on staff, I think it is safe to say none of us would be staff if we took people who broke chat rules too seriously and let our own feelings get hurt. It's just not what we're about.

    I view my job as a mod as basically two things: 1) Make sure everyone feels safe playing on AC, and 2) making sure everyone can have fun on AC. There's a few other things that I do (and lots more that others do because, well, I'm a bit of a moron), but those two are really what its about for me. I want everyone, including you, to feel safe. I want everyone, including you, to have fun. If you, or anyone else, gets in the way of you, or anyone else feeling safe or having fun I'm going to step in. Every time. I'll rock n' roll on that shit in an instant. What I won't do is walk away hating anyone for it. You, or anyone else.

    So be nice, have fun.

    Thanks for putting yourself out there and contributing. Here and in game. I mean that.
    DadBoss
     
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  11. TheAncapGent

    TheAncapGent Active Member

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    That would require to change human behavior which is virtually impossible. The staff are merely human beings and most humans can't disregard past negative observations and whatever feelings was brought up in them.
     
  12. GNAWERS

    GNAWERS New Member

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    I feel like this is a weak excuse for unprofessional-ism. By accepting the task and responsibility, it is their job to put feelings aside and work in regards to the rules.
     
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  13. GNAWERS

    GNAWERS New Member

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    Thank you for taking the time to read the post and post a thoughtful response. I would like to correct you on one thing though. I do feel as if I am not liked, but this does not trouble me. In my post I am simply acknowledging a fact, not asking for forgiveness.
     
  14. Batarian

    Batarian Member

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    This is something that has needed attention for a long time. I think Staff-Player communication is a big issue that needs to be looked at, or being active in general. Obviously, we all have different time zones and daily time occupiers; but there are many times where it's crazy as all hell in chat, a player has an issue, somebody needs help, or whatever, and they have to wait. So, this leads me to the whole "report on forums" thing. The forums, as they are currently, are not very active. A lot of people feel that they are not the best medium of exposure for their problems, suggestions, concerns, whatever it may be.

    GNAWERS mentioned bias, but I also feel this is a very big issue that can spiral out of control. I have been told by many players that have played AC for quite some time that bias is prevalent. This is probably what I see as the biggest issue among the three. It's definitely understandable to have bias for longer tenured players and players you consider a friend, but not the the point where they are innocent because of their name, and cannot do any wrong because of their name.

    It was recently mentioned that a lot goes on behind the scenes that us non-staff players do not see, which makes a lot of sense. However, that does no good for our issues when we do not see what goes on "behind the scenes." Obviously, again, we should not see everything, but it would be nice to see what is done to help further promote the health of the community and so forth. I really hope this thread isn't ignored and pushed to the side. Some progress can be made in these issues.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  15. albasant

    albasant Member

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    I cant relate.. Staff always seems to take my concerns pretty seriously. Mabye its beacuse ive been around a while but is that really bad? Going against your disclaimer, i think its perfectly fine for staff to show bias against people for thier past actions- especially if they dont stop or limit this trend of behavoir. If your a fuckwit in chat all the time you should be taken less seriously imo. At the same time if your often helpfull and accurate in your activity you should be taken more seriously. But i do agree nobody should ever be ignored by staff- especially if confronted directly. If staff ignores you or shows clear dissregard for reports of yours, report them and find a better mod. For every 2 mediocre mods theres one really good one.
    I think this servers problems comes in the corruption of promotions and making people staff who arent qualified or able to fuffil there roles. Especially at the helper level. I think we need mods who arent just there to fill a slot in the time zone- quality over quantity.
     
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  16. WHYdidyouSHOOT

    WHYdidyouSHOOT New Member

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    I'm just here for the meme and meme accessories
     
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  17. Baert

    Baert New Member

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    Sorry, but I don't have much pity for you. It's not difficult to not violate Applecraft's rules and obviously if you're a constant shit-stirrer and a known name to staff for continuous infractions you'll be treated differently than a first timer, that's just human nature like you said. How often are you getting muted that it has become an issue where you don't know why?

    "a player who isn't, to put it bluntly, scared of voicing their opinion on potentially controversial subjects."

    This isn't encouraged in global chat so don't know why you think you're being extra persecuted for something you shouldn't be talking about in the first place.

    Your entire wall of text seems to boil down to treat everyone fairly, listen to all concerns and communication between players and staff. I've never had an issue with lack of communication. Whether here on the website or via Discord but maybe it's because I'm not causing my own problems.
     
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  18. TheAncapGent

    TheAncapGent Active Member

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    You may see it that way, but it isn't possible to take out the human factor. Unless you find a way to make it all automated.
     
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  19. Batarian

    Batarian Member

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    It's part of their role as a staff member to put all personal bias aside and treat everyone equally.
     
  20. TheAncapGent

    TheAncapGent Active Member

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    Still not entirely possible. It's against human nature to treat everyone the same.
    If someone who's been taken in the act of griefing or stealing, then it's natural to not treat that person as any other player.

    If someone has been muted several times for spewing shit against X, it's natural to not treat that person as any other player.

    This translates into the real world as well, if you worked at a café, and a KKK member, or someone from a similar hateful gruoup, came in and made an order, you would probably be more inclined to throw them out. You probably wouldn't greet a known murderer or rapist either, when they came in shopping in your store.

    It is human nature, whether you're a mod, admin, real life employee of anything, to be treating people differently according to their past actions. You cannot ask people to go against human nature without becoming disappointed with the result.
     

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