Implementing Potion Effect Library Books

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by albasant, Oct 29, 2020.

Tags:
  1. albasant

    albasant Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    58
    With the Library crate coming up on the horizon, I wanted to take some time to look at the most controversial part of these crates- the potion effect books. These books are what made the original library crate so infamous, and if we are going to try and do them again, which I think we should, there's some things to note.

    Keep in mind this is all from a blue player's perspective, though I am fairly confident that on red and purple, these circumstances are the same (or worsened). I'm also not talking about Glow books, which are technically potion effect books but don't really apply for any of this.

    Let's start this with some history, and look at what ended up happening to alot of the previous wave of potion effect library books.

    Today, these books are very difficult and expensive to acquire- even in contrast to other library books which themselves are difficult and expensive to acquire. Not a single one of these books is under 3 stacks and a good chunk of them are over 10. It is also incredibly difficult to find a seller for any of them, people have tried for weeks and sometimes months, often in vain, to find anyone who even HAS a loose one at this point. I would go far as to say it is functionally impossible to acquire some of these anymore as they have simply all been used or hoarded. This is due to the fact that players tend to stack these books all on one item, and therefore are much less able to resell these books as they are tied to that player's personal set of gear. Even if they are not used, it's usually not used due to that player trying to hoard them because of how obvious it is that they will go up in value long term. Library books as a rare type come with artificial scarcity, which is amplified by how useful they are.

    It's also important to look at the context of the time these were released, and why people complained so much about them then as supposed to now. Rares before around mid 2019 were a lot different from what we see now. The crowdsourcing process that is used on discord now was not as refined and people's overall opinions on rares were much different. "Different" in this case generally means worse- both conceptually and how useful/powerful/cosmetically appealing they are. For example, it was not uncommon at the time to see a rare that simply only had fire resistance, that was the whole rare. Water Breathing, Invisibility, Night Vision, these all were effects that were an entire rare back then. These days, potion effects are actually avoided most of the time, as rares tend to have more unique effects. This meant that these books came in and essentially made a whole group of rares the new shit-tier instead of industry-standard, which is something people aren't usually a fan of. I know people around here hate the term "Power Creep" but this is probably the best example ever of this effect- and it did suck for a lot of people. It especially sucked because even when that crate was new or recent, these books were very expensive and hard to find, which meant if you didn't have a lot of spare DB, you were stuck using the shit tier rares while people who had the DB (and I mean ALOT of DB) got to add these rares to their armor for free. It was particularly frustrating when people were able to stack a bunch of potion effects onto one rare and essentially have a god-tier rare for no cost to what they had to carry or wear (no opportunity cost).

    This is all a "neat" history lesson, but what are the specific problems here?

    Synopsis: I would say it all boils down to a few points:
    -People stacked these like crazy onto one rare to make themselves obnoxiously powerful.
    -Due to the way library books are as a rare type, these were significantly rarer and more expensive than normal.
    -They ate into the design space of previous and upcoming rares, essentially making them shit-tier from the start.

    This all being said, the opening statement says that I'm in favor of these being reprinted into Library crate 2020, and that is because a lot of these issues have already been solved or can be addressed with a change in design philosophy.

    There has been a very recent change in the way library books function, which addresses the first issue. Players can no longer stack more than 3 library books onto their items. This means that there is a real opportunity cost to using these and that they are generally less overpowered than their original counterparts. This is a great change that helps fix that problem.

    The other 2 issues (artificial scarcity and power creep) are alot less easy of a quick fix, but I think that it's still something that can be worked on. Apple herself describes these potion effects as the common rare- essentially that potion effects are the lowest, least exciting area of rares. This is actually very true, most rares that exist nowadays that just have potion effects (unless they have alot of them like obsidian lily or are blatantly overpowered like Dreamthisle) are not particularly valuable or used that often.

    The issue is that we've stopped making these rares as if these effects were common. If potion effects are common, they should be on alot more rares incidentally than they are now- essentially, a lot of rares should come as if they already had someone use a library book on them. This does 2 things: having more rares with these potion effects decreases the inherent value of potion effect books, thereby decreasing the demand. (you don't need a fire-resistance book as badly there was an elytra or pair of speed boots printed that already has fire resistance) and it also decreases the inherent power of these books. Instead of this book often adding this effect to your armor, they are simply a redundancy that gives you the ability to swap out your armor easily. (Adding fire resistance to your armor is not very important if you can offhand a rare that gives you fire resistance and also does something else powerful). These kinds of rares need to be more common to balance out the low opportunity cost of library books. We need to go back to the era of potion effect rares.

    Specifically, I am looking towards the upcoming advent crate (and future crates) to help solve this- advent crate (or whatever form it takes) is a great opportunity to make potion effects common again.

    Additionally, I don't think that it is at all out of the question to reprint these books in other crates, they are in constant high demand and the prices they reach are pretty problematic, especially as the supply goes down in the following months. Having these be rewards for events is also a good spot, or even putting a chestful of these as DB sinks at spawn every month. As long as they are printed more often than the yearly library crate, and are not allowed to reach absurd prices.

    Essentially, there needs to be measures in place to combat the inherent scarcity of these books.

    I think with these factors potentially combined, potion effect library books are not nearly as problematic as they were in the past.

    There are also some additional notes that are important to this discussion:
    Keep in mind that these books are very easy for Apple to make and very exciting for players. The job the way I see it is to find a way to make these books less overpowered via surrounding circumstances rather than have Apple simply not do them. This is Apples server and her time, after all, it being efficient for her is probably the most important circumstance of this whole discussion.

    Potion effects really should be common, especially the ones that you can get by drinking an 8-minute potion. If you really want to always have a certain effect, it's not crazy to just carry around a few potions. If every rare from now on had one of these potion effects, I really wouldn't mind as it's pretty easy to functionally always have stuff like fire resistance in vanilla. This is why I don't really like Speed and Jump Boost as much, as those feel like they deserve to be their own rares, I would personally rather see something like Slow Falling or Strength 1 as a book.

    Saturation is the one exception to everything here, it is rare that on its own, even if it were just a book you couldn't equip to anything, is overpowered. It is very hard to die if you have armor and saturation, it is comparable to regen 2. it's simply not a balanced effect for anything- much less on red which actually has an incentive for PVP. It's also very likely to be removed in 1.17 as the PVP overhaul is removing the saturation stat entirely. I am opposed to it being reprinted ever again.

    List of all the books I recommend having in this crate:
    -Fire Resistance
    -Invisibility
    -Water Breathing
    -Night Vision
    -Strength 1
    -Speed 2
    -Slow Falling 1
    -Dolphins Grace
    -Jump Boost 3


    *Edits to fix my awfull spelling

    Thanks for reading, spiders be like: ////>>>>.<<<\\\\
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
    • Like Like x 4
    • Potato Potato x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Gilder

    Gilder New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2020
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    1
    English Please Bruh. Mod ban him for saying a foreign language. I can't read any single one of these. All this stuff hurts my brain.
     
    • Potato Potato x 1
  3. Addeve

    Addeve Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2016
    Messages:
    736
    Likes Received:
    317
    Fun Fact: I copied and pasted this into Microsoft Word, set to times new roman and 12 font double spaced, this is a 5 page paper. This is longer than the United States Constitution. Bruh XD
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  4. BariSaxMatt

    BariSaxMatt Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    6
    To be honest, there should be a way to counteract these people with majorly stacked items/rares.

    Seeing as these OP items were made BEFORE the book limit, the powerful stay powerful, and the weak stay weak, due to the new 3-book limit concept. Even if the limit were to be increased, these rather powerful people will stay powerful regardless, and this limit will limit those of us who wish to become more powerful.

    If the limit were to be removed, it wouldn't be as bad to be honest. Even though the powerful will still inevitably stay powerful, it will give the newer players a better chance to become as such.

    There should be a way to simply limit EVERYONE's amount of legendshop/lib books on an item, if the limit is going to be kept in place, regardless of when the effect book/item was made (not the particle books, but the potion effect books), whether it be through stripping items of their effects, turning an item's lib books into separate books, etc. I don't know how this should be carried out, but there should be a strict 3-book limit on everyone's items.

    Thanks for coming to my mini Ted Talk.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
  5. BuddhaBoi

    BuddhaBoi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2019
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    30
    Thank you Albasant, we love you Albasant.

    ~n-n^
    here is cat
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. tacocatermelon

    tacocatermelon Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    4
    @albasant how do u write like this :0 i cn barely do a 3-paragraph essay fr school in a day lmao
     

Share This Page