POLL X-ray Bans

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Banana8813, Apr 29, 2021.

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What length of time should x-ray bans warrant?

  1. 7 days

  2. 30 days

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  1. Banana8813

    Banana8813 New Member

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    I think that x-rayers should get a default ban of 30 days, as that would keep them off the server for longer/let them reflect on their actions. In my opinion 7 days is just too lenient for them to really learn anything. Obviously not justifying x-raying but I believe an extended ban would be better for the server. I am just toying around with the idea, so please leave any suggestions in the replies. You might have a better idea than I do.
     
  2. Meoweon

    Meoweon Meowerator Staff Member Moderator

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    I don't really see an issue with the current default time. The unfortunate truth is if someone xrays and gets their first seven-day ban when they come back there's a high chance they'll just xray again and get their permanent ban. If we go with the thirty-day temp bans then all we are doing is just prolonging the wait time for them to xray again. That's just how I see it. :p
     
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  3. CamCam999

    CamCam999 Member

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    Tbh it's their fault that they cant get their brain together and try to not have the urge to xray for a 2nd time. 7 days is plenty of time to reflect on your actions, and to come back as a better person. Unfortunately, a lot of people either don't care or dont use the time wisely.
     
  4. The_Jokers_sin

    The_Jokers_sin New Member

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    Both are extremely lenient in my opinion people knows its not wanted on servers there is 0 excuse
     
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  5. TheSarchasm

    TheSarchasm Ancient Being Unbound from Time and Space Staff Member Moderator

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    I'd prefer to keep it at 7 days.

    We've had plenty of people who made the mistake of xraying and then went on to become quality members of the community. For those people, 7 days is more than enough time to reflect on their actions and straighten out. Because a lot of players who do xray are newer, I would worry that 30 days would be long enough for them to forget about the server entirely. I'd rather have them come back and player properly than get banned and never return.

    On the flip side, there are also plenty of players who don't learn from their first mistake and come back to xray a second time. These players are aware that if they are caught, they'll be kicked off the server permanently...but they still do it. So I doubt making the first offense longer is going to make much of a difference. It doesn't take very long to comprehend that actions have consequences.

    Overall, I don't think a 30 day ban would do anything to stop people from xraying a second time, but it would probably be long enough to put newer players off the server for good.
     
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  6. Banana8813

    Banana8813 New Member

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    I just wanted to toy with the idea. I'm pretty new so I wanted to see what the more experienced people of the community had to say about x-ray bans. You have all made some pretty compelling points. My idea was that if people were banned for longer, those who will commit a repeat offense will lose interest after being banned for so long. But I can also how that can backfire on people who genuinely want to change for the better. My other idea was that if they admit on their ban appeal and seem genuine, then the possible to get a lightened sentence(maybe 7 day ban or 14 day ban instead) should be available. Obviously no one is entitled to shortened ban, that would be entirely up to the moderators. That why those, who actually want to try to improve will get the short ban, while those who don't care will forget about the server.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2021
  7. DocPBush

    DocPBush Active Member

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    xrayers deserve no mercy, 30 days is too lenient. id say 365 days hard irl labour working in the coal mines is well deserved for xraying diamonds.
     
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  8. Colrr

    Colrr Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The issue with harsher sentences comes into play when you think about the ramifications of spending a month away from something, especially something simple like a pastime. We don't wanna have amazing members of the community be driven away simply because they x-rayed once. I know a lot of my friends that got an x-ray offence but have come back and become amazing members of the AC community, it would be a shame if a longer ban were to drive them away

    - Colrr
     
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  9. fifjfjrhds

    fifjfjrhds Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    lmao
     
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  10. Banana8813

    Banana8813 New Member

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    Those are some pretty good points. My suggestion would be a standard of 30 days, with a possibility for the ban to be shortened to 7 days if you appeal on the forums. Those who actually want to change won't have a problem making an appeal, and those who don't care forget about the server and don't cause problems. My suggested 30 days isn't meant to be a non-negotiable ban, if one admits on an appeal on the forums then they should get the regular 7 day ban. Like I said before though, I really don't know how the moderation/ban appeal system works. So correct me if there are any inconsistencies here.
     
  11. TheSarchasm

    TheSarchasm Ancient Being Unbound from Time and Space Staff Member Moderator

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    We try to keep things as consistent as possible, and relying on "Well, this person SEEMS sincere" to reduce a ban by an entire three weeks would absolutely lead to hurt feelings if your appeal was denied. It's hard to convey sincerity in text format, and we're talking about both a staff and a player base ranging from 7 to 70. Beyond that, many players log out before they can be told about the forums. Others are so embarrassed that they opt not to appeal because they want to come back without having the entire server (at least the ones who read the forums) made aware that they were banned in the first place. Again, there's really nothing that a 30 day ban adds to the process- 7 days is plenty for the people who actually care, and if they don't care, the additional time won't prevent them from reoffending.
     
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  12. Banana8813

    Banana8813 New Member

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    I can see your point that it can seem very inconsistent. However I disagree with the last sentence, as most people do not have that long of an attention span. 30 days will drive away all but the most dedicated of rulebreakers. People have short attention spans, as is the nature of the online world. In one study, a little over 200 people filled out a questionnaire and found that internet usage had direct correlation with shorter attention spans (Carstens et.al, 2018). My point here is that 30 day bans do work in preventing repeat offenses. As for being embarrassed I can see your point, as one study evaluated the 4 main causes of public embarrassment (Higuchi & Fukada, 2002). My suggestion would be to have an option to have a private appeal should they request it, so that they don't feel embarrassed.
    -Banana8813
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  13. TheSarchasm

    TheSarchasm Ancient Being Unbound from Time and Space Staff Member Moderator

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    Right. Which would by necessity include otherwise good players who never come back after their first offense. Our server already has some issues with player retention. Taken statistically, it's incredibly uncommon for a long term, established player to suddenly start xraying. Most of the people who are caught xraying have been on the server for a relatively short period of time. If you've been on the server for an hour and get banned for a month, you aren't coming back.

    We honestly don't have enough repeat offenses that we need to look at broad sweeping methods in order to curtail it. Beyond that, you're suggesting that we reduce these 30 day bans by 3/4s of their length if someone makes an appeal on the forum and "seems sincere", which an engaged player will probably do. So in essence, anyone who intends to come back to the server is only going to be banned for 7 days anyway, having exactly 0 impact on the overall recidivism rate and a huge impact on player retention.

    |

    We don't do appeals one on one for a variety of reasons. Among them, people tend to become belligerent and hostile in one-on-one discussions about their bans, and most xray bans are done by a team of mods/admins.

    You're solving a problem that doesn't exist, and your solution would make things significantly worse for all parties involved. I can comfortably say this as both someone who has moderated the server for :checks notes: REALLY? Jesus. Almost 2 years at this point. AND as someone who was previously banned from the server for xraying. Had I been banned for a month, I wouldn't have come back.
     
  14. Banana8813

    Banana8813 New Member

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    Thank you for responding, since I really don't really know much about moderation seeing as I have never moderated on a minecraft server before. As for your point about players leaving after a short span of time, I disagree. If you're only 1 hour in and you're already using an unfair advantage, it is pretty clear that you aren't looking to be a positive influence on the server. And the excuse of "I didn't read the rules" is quite a null point considering how heavily the rules are advertised on the server. As for player retention, again I don't know what goes on behind the scenes so thank you for correcting me there. As for your argument about belligerency in private messages the point is pretty moot considering the fact that most players who want to come back known that insulting the mods isn't going to help their case. In fact, based on the few hours I have spent reading ban appeals, only a few are openly belligerent and most are either apologies or outright denial. I know that moderators can get really busy with the server/irl things, so I can see why you do not want private appeals as they would require more dedicated time. As for appeals, sincerity isn't so much as important as effort put into making the appeal. One of two things happens: 1. Someone who has hacked want to change their ways and makes an appeal or 2. Someone who hacked wants another chance to hack again makes an appeal to get unbanned. As someone who has hacked before, I know that the average hacker won't bother with making an effort to appeal. Like you said though, sincerity is hard to measure especially in an online format. The reason I suggested the 30 day ban in the first place is so that the average hacker will not come back on the server to hack again, and so that those who make an effort to appeal get a lighter punishment and a chance to change. Obviously there are those who lie through their teeth on appeals, I realize that, but there are less people who are willing to make an appeal just to hack again than those who go on servers just to hack. If you're worried about people being uninformed about the forums, then advertise it; voting is already advertised, so the forums should be advertised in a similar fashion. This is just a suggestion and to gauge other people's opinions on the current ban system. I'm not expecting any of this to actually make it on the server as I'm sure the situation is far more complex than myself and other forum members realize.

    -Banana8813
     
  15. Korey Washington

    Korey Washington New Member

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    As someone who has x-rayed and is permanently banned for xray, these comments are interesting, I personally think that a 30 day ban and a 7 day ban are very hard to pick between, but as someone who wished they had more time to think about what they did, I would probably opt for the 30 day ban ngl.
     
  16. TheSarchasm

    TheSarchasm Ancient Being Unbound from Time and Space Staff Member Moderator

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    As someone who actually handles bans, I promise you, you are incorrect. You're also contradicting yourself here. You said that if they seem sincere in their ban appeal, they should have the ban reduced...but then you said that if they've been caught xraying after only an hour, they clearly "aren't looking to be a positive influence on the server". So why exactly would be be reducing bans for people based on the sincerity of their ban appeals?

    Those are public ban appeals. I have personally been on the receiving end of incredibly belligerent private messages for bans that I didn't even issue. As have MANY other mods. You're trying to tell me that my point is invalid based on your own experience, but you're comparing apples and oranges here. Moreover, you're proving my point- We keep things public because people are more civil in public.

    We have hackers who appeal all the time. We have people who xray, appeal, reoffend, and appeal again. It seems like you've gone from "sincere appeal" to "appealing at all", and if we're going to reduce the ban to a week if they make the barest effort then the 30 day ban is pretty pointless.

    Cool. I've provided my opinion and done my best to clear up some of the complexities. In general I like to weigh in on these kinds of things as it pertains to staff because in general, players aren't aware of some aspects of how the server runs on the backend.
     
  17. Banana8813

    Banana8813 New Member

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    Thanks for clarifying, I don't know what goes behind the scenes so it's nice to get a moderators perspective. Most of what you said made a lot of sense, except for maybe the belligerency issue. Many large servers(which I will not name) have private ban threads, this proves that it does work, although I don't know how effective it would be on a server a small as this one. Feel free to respond and close the thread, seeing as how to topic is no longer relevant.
     
  18. Colrr

    Colrr Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The issues with private bans were stated by Sarc earlier, the main points being that multiple staff members are involved in most x-ray bans, and that it may result in hostility from both sides,the Player and the Staff Member (we are people too) and that is an unnecessary and avoidable downside

    - Colrr
     
  19. Billybootscraff

    Billybootscraff New Member

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    7 days is definitely enough. tbh idek why there is so much controversy. :/
     
  20. OlleNallen

    OlleNallen Member

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    I x-rayed once when i was a newbie and got banned 7 days. And I definitely learned my lesson by serving my 7 day sentence. But it depends on the person, if you are smart enough don't do it again and if you dum dum you get beaned simple as that. :cool::cool:
     
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